Difference between revisions of "Talk:Merit's Encoded Message"

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(→‎Crazy attempt to record wrong guesses per word)
(→‎Paragraph 5)
 
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−
Could we switch and use all caps for the guessed words and lowercase "word" for the unguessed ones?
+
[[/Archive1]]
−
Also, do we make a guess first, or roll cryptography first? --[[User:Kasumi|Kasumi]] 20:44, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
+
==Hints come in this order==
−
:There are some capitalized letters, so you might not want that, but if people would prefer that, we can switch.  If you roll first, that tells you how many successes you have to use, so I recommend doing it in that order.  I... um, I can't figure out why you would guess without rolling, we wouldn't fill in anything if you didn't have any successes... --[[User:Boojum|Boojum]] 17:55, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
+
# Part of speech
−
:Also, if you think it's helpful, you can make one guess at a time, up to your number of successes, rather than guessing a bunch of things at once. --[[User:Boojum|Boojum]] 23:29, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
+
# More grammatical details
−
 
+
# Etymology
−
== First quoted section ==
+
# Number of letters
−
 
+
# Number of syllables
−
<font STYLE="font-family:'DPCustomMono2','Bitstream Vera Sans
+
# First letter
−
Mono','monaco','Lucida Sans Unicode'" color=609c20 size=2>
+
−
And the WORD of the WORD WORD in the  WORD  of the WORD, and WORD WORD WORD WORD the WORD, WORD WORD WORD WORD WORD WORD.
+
−
And the WORD of the WORD WORD in the  WORD  of the WORD, and WORD WORD WORD WORD the WORD, WORD WORD WORD WORD WORD WORD.
+
−
And the WORD of the WORD WORD in the spirit of the WORD, and WORD WORD WORD WORD the WORD, WORD WORD WORD WORD</font>
+
−
This bit at the end of the first quoted section looks to me like some sort of ritual incant, what with the parallel structure and whatnot. If one were invoking some sort of triune assemblage of which 'spirit' was the third part, would the first two parts be 'body' and 'mind'? [[User:屳鍁韯褼襳先苮馦枮忺韱奾廯暹纎嘕鱻仚祅蹮|Xian]] 21:43, 4 March 2011 (UTC)
+
−
 
+
−
== Ideas people might try. ==
+
−
 
+
−
 
+
−
I'm not good at decoding, but the "___ of the Dragon" makes me think of some possibilities:
+
−
 
+
−
Once, the heart of the empire was "the Dragon's Throne."  Throne seems likely - the WORD of the WORD of the Dragon could be talking about some order stationed in the Dragon's Throne.
+
−
 
+
−
We should check the word "name", in case it's talking about the renaming.  Shen's Gate is close enough to the wall that whoever wrote it could have been over the wall at some point and noticed the change.
+
−
 
+
−
 
+
−
egg, spirit, breath, claw, guardian, guardians.
+
−
 
+
−
 
+
−
And I'd be curious if the word "wall" was in there somewhere.
+
−
 
+
−
--[[User:Ringrose|Ringrose]] 17:19, 16 March 2011 (UTC)
+
−
 
+
−
== Hey Cai Wen ==
+
−
 
+
−
Stop guessing "Spider" and try a word you haven't guessed before, like "he", "she", or "it". [[User:屳鍁韯褼襳先苮馦枮忺韱奾廯暹纎嘕鱻仚祅蹮|Xian]] 20:20, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
+
  
 
== Crazy attempt to record wrong guesses per word ==
 
== Crazy attempt to record wrong guesses per word ==
Line 38: Line 12:
 
Testing wiki formatting.  Mouse over WORDs to see what we've already tried in that spot.
 
Testing wiki formatting.  Mouse over WORDs to see what we've already tried in that spot.
  
 +
===Paragraph 1===
 
These
 
These
 
are
 
are
Line 46: Line 21:
 
upon
 
upon
 
the
 
the
−
<b title="Not:
+
remains
−
wall
+
−
throne
+
−
ruins
+
−
door
+
−
scroll
+
−
book
+
−
gate
+
−
back
+
−
side
+
−
">WORD</b>
+
 
of
 
of
 
the
 
the
−
<b title="Not:
+
tablet,
−
temple
+
−
palace
+
−
tomb
+
−
library
+
−
fortress
+
−
castle
+
−
city
+
−
monastery
+
−
scroll
+
−
">WORD</b>,
+
 
as
 
as
 
I
 
I
Line 98: Line 53:
 
Dragon.
 
Dragon.
  
 +
===Paragraph 2===
 +
"And
 +
in
 +
the
 +
last
 +
days
 +
of
 +
the
 +
great
 +
Lo
 +
Tan,
 +
did
 +
he
 +
give
 +
his
 +
blessing
 +
and
 +
protection
 +
to
 +
the
 +
brotherhood
 +
of
 +
Keepers.
 +
And
 +
as
 +
the
 +
Cycle
 +
itself
 +
turns,
 +
with
 +
each
 +
Great
 +
Spirit
 +
rising
 +
to
 +
ascendency
 +
and
 +
then
 +
falling
 +
once
 +
more
 +
only
 +
to
 +
rise
 +
again,
 +
so
 +
did
 +
the
 +
<b title="Not:
 +
appears
 +
army
 +
astrologers
 +
belief
 +
Brotherhood
 +
brothers
 +
captain
 +
charts
 +
council
 +
court
 +
doesn't
 +
faithful
 +
father
 +
finally
 +
founder
 +
horse
 +
however
 +
keeper
 +
Keepers
 +
knowledge
 +
let
 +
maker
 +
masters
 +
models
 +
Mountain
 +
news
 +
once
 +
oracle
 +
order
 +
people
 +
portents
 +
priests
 +
prophecy
 +
Queen
 +
reckoner
 +
remnant
 +
rumor
 +
sages
 +
seekers
 +
seer
 +
several
 +
signs
 +
soothsayers
 +
South
 +
spirits
 +
stars
 +
thirteen
 +
town
 +
us
 +
various
 +
wheel
 +
which
 +
willing
 +
wise
 +
woman
 +
yuga
 +
">PLURAL-MILDLY-OBSCURE-ABSTRACT-NOUN-FROM-FRENCH-AND-LATIN</b>
 +
predict
 +
that
 +
the
 +
Dragon
 +
Emperors
 +
would
 +
return.
 +
And
 +
so
 +
as
 +
the
 +
line
 +
of
 +
Emperors
 +
slept,
 +
the
 +
Keepers
 +
would
 +
protect
 +
Their
 +
legacy
 +
from
 +
those
 +
who
 +
would
 +
<b title="Not:
 +
abuse
 +
arrogate
 +
attack
 +
box
 +
break
 +
chi
 +
cost
 +
defile
 +
deny
 +
destroy
 +
disjoin
 +
disturb
 +
doing
 +
door
 +
end
 +
extinguish
 +
far
 +
find
 +
harm
 +
idea
 +
impugn
 +
makes
 +
mark
 +
metal
 +
note
 +
open
 +
overthrow
 +
particular
 +
people
 +
perform
 +
pervert
 +
quell
 +
quench
 +
raid
 +
remake
 +
remove
 +
ruin
 +
second
 +
secret
 +
see
 +
seize
 +
sense
 +
shackle
 +
ship
 +
steal
 +
stop
 +
take
 +
taken
 +
tell
 +
thwart
 +
trisect
 +
use
 +
usurp
 +
vanquish
 +
who
 +
wield
 +
">ACTIVE-PHYSICAL-VERB-FROM-GERMAN-AND-IT-REALLY-SOUNDS-LIKE-IT</b>
 +
it
 +
and
 +
cause
 +
the
 +
downfall
 +
of
 +
the
 +
Dragon's
 +
land.
 +
And
 +
thus
 +
did
 +
the
 +
thirteen
 +
Keepers
 +
receive
 +
their
 +
charge,
 +
and
 +
take
 +
the
 +
three
 +
Keys
 +
to
 +
the
 +
Vault
 +
and
 +
hide
 +
them
 +
behind
 +
the
 +
three
 +
Flames
 +
of
 +
the
 +
Dragon.
 +
And
 +
the
 +
Flame
 +
of
 +
the
 +
Yin
 +
was
 +
in
 +
the
 +
body
 +
of
 +
the
 +
land,
 +
and
 +
it
 +
was
 +
deep
 +
beneath
 +
the
 +
earth,
 +
where
 +
it
 +
would
 +
not
 +
be
 +
found.
 +
And
 +
the
 +
Flame
 +
of
 +
the
 +
Chi
 +
was
 +
in
 +
the
 +
heart
 +
of
 +
the
 +
land,
 +
and
 +
it
 +
was
 +
deep
 +
within
 +
the
 +
tree,
 +
where
 +
it
 +
would
 +
not
 +
be
 +
found.
 +
And
 +
the
 +
Flame
 +
of
 +
the
 +
Yang
 +
was
 +
in
 +
the
 +
spirit
 +
of
 +
the
 +
land,
 +
and
 +
it
 +
was
 +
deep
 +
within
 +
the
 +
waters,
 +
where
 +
it
 +
would
 +
not"
 +
 +
===Paragraph 3===
 +
These
 +
are
 +
the
 +
words
 +
I
 +
found
 +
upon
 +
the
 +
scroll,
 +
as
 +
I
 +
found
 +
it,
 +
and
 +
as
 +
I
 +
transcribed
 +
it,
 +
before
 +
it
 +
was
 +
stolen.
 +
May
 +
these
 +
words
 +
not
 +
fall
 +
into
 +
the
 +
hands
 +
of
 +
the
 +
enemies
 +
of
 +
the
 +
Dragon.
 +
 +
===Paragraph 4===
 +
"The
 +
Great
 +
Keeper
 +
is
 +
not
 +
able
 +
to
 +
stop
 +
us.
 +
The
 +
first
 +
four
 +
are
 +
dead,
 +
though
 +
they
 +
did
 +
manage
 +
to
 +
destroy
 +
the
 +
mine
 +
and
 +
bury
 +
their
 +
Key
 +
beneath
 +
Heaven,
 +
never
 +
to
 +
be
 +
recovered.
 +
The
 +
second
 +
four
 +
have
 +
made
 +
a
 +
<b title="Not:
 +
agreement
 +
along
 +
away
 +
bargain
 +
binding
 +
blessing
 +
by
 +
casket
 +
city
 +
compact
 +
concordat
 +
connection
 +
contract
 +
covenant
 +
crossing
 +
deal
 +
doing
 +
end
 +
isn't
 +
killing
 +
king
 +
league
 +
likeness
 +
made
 +
memory
 +
mistake
 +
pact
 +
pie
 +
plan
 +
pretty
 +
promise
 +
puzzle
 +
quite
 +
riddle
 +
right
 +
ritual
 +
room
 +
scheme
 +
seal
 +
seeming
 +
stand
 +
start
 +
start
 +
still
 +
such
 +
sure
 +
thing
 +
think
 +
time
 +
trade
 +
trap
 +
treaty
 +
turns
 +
vow
 +
were
 +
">SLIGHTLY-UNGRAMMATICAL-PRETENTIOUS-SOUNDING-GERUND</b>
 +
with
 +
demons
 +
and
 +
<b title="Not:
 +
any
 +
broke
 +
broken
 +
carried
 +
carted
 +
cast
 +
caused
 +
cut
 +
day
 +
embodied
 +
forged
 +
fu
 +
got
 +
guard
 +
hid
 +
hidden
 +
high
 +
isolated
 +
least
 +
light
 +
made
 +
map
 +
me
 +
merchant
 +
much
 +
only
 +
parted
 +
particularly
 +
passed
 +
preserve
 +
removed
 +
report
 +
rest
 +
ripped
 +
sent
 +
she
 +
smuggled
 +
sought
 +
spirited
 +
something
 +
spirited
 +
stolen
 +
taken
 +
those
 +
together
 +
took
 +
tore
 +
town
 +
two
 +
using
 +
want
 +
were
 +
won
 +
">PAST-TENSE-IRREGULAR-ACTIVE-GERMANIC-VERB</b>
 +
a
 +
piece
 +
of
 +
the
 +
<b title="
 +
Is: land
 +
 +
Not:
 +
action
 +
answer
 +
anything
 +
ask
 +
better
 +
bridge
 +
center
 +
end
 +
family
 +
far
 +
fire
 +
flame
 +
gets
 +
has
 +
here
 +
house
 +
how
 +
holy
 +
icon
 +
information
 +
into
 +
key
 +
magic
 +
man
 +
message
 +
mystery
 +
night
 +
now
 +
only
 +
others
 +
out
 +
plan
 +
possibility
 +
prize
 +
puzzle
 +
ritual
 +
rock
 +
room
 +
seal
 +
shrine
 +
small
 +
spirit
 +
statue
 +
takes
 +
thing
 +
tomb
 +
treasured
 +
tree
 +
trouble
 +
trove
 +
vault
 +
wall
 +
were
 +
white
 +
wonder
 +
">THAT-SAME-BIG-CONCRETE-COMMON-GERMANIC-PLACE</b>
 +
away
 +
from
 +
the
 +
Forest,
 +
where
 +
it
 +
can
 +
not
 +
be
 +
reached.
 +
But
 +
the
 +
third
 +
four
 +
were
 +
corrupted
 +
and
 +
have
 +
revealed
 +
their
 +
charge.
 +
We
 +
shall
 +
dive
 +
into
 +
the
 +
pool
 +
of
 +
the
 +
Emperors
 +
and
 +
bypass
 +
the
 +
Flame
 +
this
 +
very
 +
day,
 +
and
 +
the
 +
Dragon's
 +
Hoard
 +
will
 +
be
 +
ours."
 +
 +
===Paragraph 5===
 +
These
 +
are
 +
the
 +
words
 +
I
 +
have
 +
read,
 +
and
 +
I
 +
believe
 +
they
 +
are
 +
true.
 +
Thus,
 +
I
 +
am
 +
the
 +
last
 +
Great
 +
Keeper.
 +
The
 +
rest
 +
of
 +
the
 +
thirteen
 +
are
 +
dead,
 +
or
 +
lost,
 +
or
 +
worse,
 +
and
 +
so
 +
it
 +
is
 +
only
 +
I
 +
who
 +
remain
 +
to
 +
fulfill
 +
our
 +
trust.
 +
Though
 +
I
 +
do
 +
not
 +
have
 +
the
 +
Keys,
 +
I
 +
do
 +
have
 +
the
 +
blessing
 +
of
 +
Dragon.
 +
I
 +
shall
 +
cast
 +
his
 +
Command
 +
<b title="Not:
 +
apply
 +
aptly
 +
maybe
 +
never
 +
north
 +
since
 +
south
 +
still
 +
truly
 +
">FIVE-LETTER-DIRECTIONAL-ADVERB-FROM-OLD-SAXON-MIDDLE-HIGH-GERMAN </b>
 +
to
 +
those
 +
who
 +
would
 +
defy
 +
his
 +
will,
 +
and
 +
they
 +
shall
 +
be
 +
bound
 +
to
 +
His
 +
<b title="Not:
 +
between
 +
command
 +
getting
 +
justice
 +
quickly
 +
mastery
 +
respite
 +
service
 +
spirits
 +
">SEVEN-LETTER-ABSTRACT-NOUN-FROM-ANGLO-NORMAN-OLD-FRENCH</b>,
 +
as
 +
if
 +
they
 +
were
 +
Keepers
 +
themselves.
 +
Until
 +
freed
 +
by
 +
touch
 +
of
 +
the
 +
Dragon,
 +
they
 +
shall
 +
serve,
 +
even
 +
unto
 +
their
 +
deaths
 +
as
 +
shall
 +
any
 +
who
 +
join
 +
with
 +
them.
 +
The
 +
Dragon's
 +
will
 +
shall
 +
prevail
 +
until
 +
He
 +
returns.
 +
 +
===Comments===
  
 
:Oooh, nice.  When initially thinking about the mechanic, we were thinking of doing mouseovers for information on a single word (if there's ever more than one hint worth of information), but it hadn't come up yet. --[[User:Boojum|Boojum]] 18:45, 12 May 2011 (UTC)
 
:Oooh, nice.  When initially thinking about the mechanic, we were thinking of doing mouseovers for information on a single word (if there's ever more than one hint worth of information), but it hadn't come up yet. --[[User:Boojum|Boojum]] 18:45, 12 May 2011 (UTC)
 +
 +
:It's better than the other stuff I tried, at least.  Cumbersome to convert my spreadsheet into that format by hand, though, so I'll ponder how to convert it automagically.  --[[User:Haydn|Haydn]] 18:55, 12 May 2011 (UTC)
 +
 +
::This is great. My hat's not pointy enough to do it any way but by hand, but I can start adding my previous guesses in off my spreadheet. [[User:屳鍁韯褼襳先苮馦枮忺韱奾廯暹纎嘕鱻仚祅蹮|Xian]] 14:35, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
 +
 +
::: I have a reasonably tall pointy hat in the field of text-frobulation, if someone wants to send me a spreadsheet to try playing with.  --[[User:Boojum|Boojum]] 14:53, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
 +
 +
::::I forgot that, unfortunately, the way I've been managing my guesses means that previous guesses are not preserved anywhere in the sheet, so by hand is the only way to go back and include mine. [[User:屳鍁韯褼襳先苮馦枮忺韱奾廯暹纎嘕鱻仚祅蹮|Xian]] 16:08, 15 May 2011 (UTC)
 +
 +
::::: Hmm.  This may be a job for Perl.  After the log gets written, though.  :)  --[[User:Boojum|Boojum]] 16:22, 15 May 2011 (UTC)
 +
 +
:I'm adding in my (and Xiao Fa's) previous guesses by hand. If any of the guessed words seem sufficiently unlikely to ever be tried again, go ahead and remove them. I already can't guess the same word twice in the same place. [[User:屳鍁韯褼襳先苮馦枮忺韱奾廯暹纎嘕鱻仚祅蹮|Xian]] 17:43, 15 May 2011 (UTC)
 +
 +
:The paragraph breaks help me find my WORDs more quickly.  If they are getting in the way of some automated process, feel free to remove them. [[User:Haydn|Haydn]] 13:36, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
 +
 +
== Spelling ==
 +
 +
Us humans are usually fairly forgiving, but even fairly sophisticated text-frobulation can't cope with misspellings, so we may need to be more careful than when we're simply writing to be understood.
 +
 +
''Prophecy'' is the noun. ''Prophesy'' is the verb. ''Phrophesy'' isn't anything. [[User:屳鍁韯褼襳先苮馦枮忺韱奾廯暹纎嘕鱻仚祅蹮|Xian]] 00:39, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
 +
 +
: At this point, there are few enough words that I'm looking by eye rather than doing anything automatic.  ascendency/ascendancy was okay, and I will try to not hold obvious typos against you, but I don't count plurality differences, conjugation differences, etc.    --[[User:Boojum|Boojum]] 00:54, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
 +
 +
 +
== Targeted Discussions ==
 +
 +
 +
=== The Cycle WORD Turns ===
 +
 +
 +
Possibly "the Cycle *wheel* turns"?  I miss the words to try.  --[[User:HeidiB|HeidiB]] 16:07, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
 +
:I tried wheel, it sounded good.  No luck.  :-(  [[User:Haydn|Haydn]] 17:31, 31 May 2011 (UTC)
 +
 +
== Meta-discussion ==
 +
 +
My theory is that this is a wiki with revision control, and we should individually feel free to make executive decisions about how we want it organized.  If someone disagrees, they can change it back, and/or start a discussion about it.  At the discussion point, we can be all "IMHO" and "Mother May I," but things will tend to go fairly well if we just assume that everyone involved (including ourselves) is clever.  For example, if I take out the "Words To Try" and you want them back, just put them back.  I'll think, "Huh.  Apparently they were more useful than I thought," and happily leave them alone.  [[User:Haydn|Haydn]] 13:23, 26 May 2011 (UTC)
 +
 +
But I don't (yet) feel confident enough in that theory to remove old talk entries, even though they are clearly obsolete.  Any opinions on old talk entries or the proposed theory of wiki-etiquette in general?  [[User:Haydn|Haydn]] 13:23, 26 May 2011 (UTC)
 +
 +
:If this version of MediaWiki supports fairly low-effort collapsible sections of pages or auto-archiving, either of those could be simple solutions. Otherwise I think the easiest answer is "scrollbar is your friend". [[User:屳鍁韯褼襳先苮馦枮忺韱奾廯暹纎嘕鱻仚祅蹮|Xian]] 14:37, 26 May 2011 (UTC)
 +
 +
::Collapsible boxes don't get introduced until 1.17, and this is 1.15.  I could try upgrading if people were really enthusiastic about collapsible boxes.  I think archiving should just work, though.  Let's see.  --[[User:Boojum|Boojum]] 22:49, 26 May 2011 (UTC)
 +
 +
Okay, the archive behaves fine (and knows it's a sub-page); the automatic archive box is having issues, I think because I keep trying to steal it from a more recent version of mediawiki.  :-P
 +
 +
== Big Picture Meaning ==
 +
 +
So, are the Keepers of the Hoard the same as the Keepers in this message?  I didn't think so; the character of the Keepers in the message seems to be high falutin', and the modern Keepers less so.  Plus, "Keepers of the Hoard" doesn't appear.  Is it possible the the modern Keepers of the Hoard are the converted minions mentioned in the final paragraph?  Would-be robbers who are now defending the Dragon unwillingly?  It would nicely explain their skillsets and loyalties.  [[User:Haydn|Haydn]] 18:00, 31 May 2011 (UTC)
 +
 +
:I am embarrassed to admit that not only was I assuming that was true, but also that it was sufficiently obvious that I didn't think to mention it. [[User:屳鍁韯褼襳先苮馦枮忺韱奾廯暹纎嘕鱻仚祅蹮|Xian]] 18:38, 1 June 2011 (UTC)
 +
 +
:I would agree, it seems the most likely case.  [[User:Elizabeth|Elizabeth]] 19:19, 1 June 2011 (UTC)
 +
 +
Just in case it hadn't already occurred to everyone else doing the exhausting mechanic, it now seems clear that paragraph 2 follows the forms of a magic ritual intended to do something to metal.  Perhaps the ritual with the three flames of the dragon creates the keys to the vault?  [[User:Elizabeth|Elizabeth]] 19:19, 1 June 2011 (UTC)
 +
 +
Alpha is not a number.  --[[User:HeidiB|HeidiB]] 12:08, 13 June 2011 (UTC)
 +
 +
:Alpha is a free man! [[User:屳鍁韯褼襳先苮馦枮忺韱奾廯暹纎嘕鱻仚祅蹮|Xian]] 02:06, 14 June 2011 (UTC)
 +
 +
::Actually, in ancient Greek, alpha was often used as a number.  alpha = 1, beta = 2, etc. -Derrick
 +
 +
Li Merit was told at the puttering party that he will get an info dump when the page is completely deciphered.  --[[User:Kasumi|Kasumi]] 22:58, 13 June 2011 (UTC)
 +
 +
== Suffixes ==
 +
 +
==== Suffixes not from French ====
 +
-ship
 +
-ness
 +
-hood
 +
-ric
 +
-ly
 +
-ing
 +
-oid
 +
-oholic
 +
-orama
 +
 +
==== Suffixes with arguably Frenchy etymologies ====
 +
-ery
 +
-er
 +
-ity
 +
-ous
 +
-age
 +
-itude
 +
-ure
 +
-tion (also -sion, occasionally -ion)
 +
-ance (-ence, -ancy, -ency)

Latest revision as of 09:53, 19 July 2011

/Archive1

Contents

Hints come in this order

  1. Part of speech
  2. More grammatical details
  3. Etymology
  4. Number of letters
  5. Number of syllables
  6. First letter

Crazy attempt to record wrong guesses per word

Testing wiki formatting. Mouse over WORDs to see what we've already tried in that spot.

Paragraph 1

These are the words I found upon the remains of the tablet, as I found it, and as I transcribed it, before it was destroyed. May these words not fall into the hands of the enemies of the Dragon.

Paragraph 2

"And in the last days of the great Lo Tan, did he give his blessing and protection to the brotherhood of Keepers. And as the Cycle itself turns, with each Great Spirit rising to ascendency and then falling once more only to rise again, so did the PLURAL-MILDLY-OBSCURE-ABSTRACT-NOUN-FROM-FRENCH-AND-LATIN predict that the Dragon Emperors would return. And so as the line of Emperors slept, the Keepers would protect Their legacy from those who would ACTIVE-PHYSICAL-VERB-FROM-GERMAN-AND-IT-REALLY-SOUNDS-LIKE-IT it and cause the downfall of the Dragon's land. And thus did the thirteen Keepers receive their charge, and take the three Keys to the Vault and hide them behind the three Flames of the Dragon. And the Flame of the Yin was in the body of the land, and it was deep beneath the earth, where it would not be found. And the Flame of the Chi was in the heart of the land, and it was deep within the tree, where it would not be found. And the Flame of the Yang was in the spirit of the land, and it was deep within the waters, where it would not"

Paragraph 3

These are the words I found upon the scroll, as I found it, and as I transcribed it, before it was stolen. May these words not fall into the hands of the enemies of the Dragon.

Paragraph 4

"The Great Keeper is not able to stop us. The first four are dead, though they did manage to destroy the mine and bury their Key beneath Heaven, never to be recovered. The second four have made a SLIGHTLY-UNGRAMMATICAL-PRETENTIOUS-SOUNDING-GERUND with demons and PAST-TENSE-IRREGULAR-ACTIVE-GERMANIC-VERB a piece of the THAT-SAME-BIG-CONCRETE-COMMON-GERMANIC-PLACE away from the Forest, where it can not be reached. But the third four were corrupted and have revealed their charge. We shall dive into the pool of the Emperors and bypass the Flame this very day, and the Dragon's Hoard will be ours."

Paragraph 5

These are the words I have read, and I believe they are true. Thus, I am the last Great Keeper. The rest of the thirteen are dead, or lost, or worse, and so it is only I who remain to fulfill our trust. Though I do not have the Keys, I do have the blessing of Dragon. I shall cast his Command FIVE-LETTER-DIRECTIONAL-ADVERB-FROM-OLD-SAXON-MIDDLE-HIGH-GERMAN to those who would defy his will, and they shall be bound to His SEVEN-LETTER-ABSTRACT-NOUN-FROM-ANGLO-NORMAN-OLD-FRENCH, as if they were Keepers themselves. Until freed by touch of the Dragon, they shall serve, even unto their deaths as shall any who join with them. The Dragon's will shall prevail until He returns.

Comments

Oooh, nice. When initially thinking about the mechanic, we were thinking of doing mouseovers for information on a single word (if there's ever more than one hint worth of information), but it hadn't come up yet. --Boojum 18:45, 12 May 2011 (UTC)
It's better than the other stuff I tried, at least. Cumbersome to convert my spreadsheet into that format by hand, though, so I'll ponder how to convert it automagically. --Haydn 18:55, 12 May 2011 (UTC)
This is great. My hat's not pointy enough to do it any way but by hand, but I can start adding my previous guesses in off my spreadheet. Xian 14:35, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
I have a reasonably tall pointy hat in the field of text-frobulation, if someone wants to send me a spreadsheet to try playing with. --Boojum 14:53, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
I forgot that, unfortunately, the way I've been managing my guesses means that previous guesses are not preserved anywhere in the sheet, so by hand is the only way to go back and include mine. Xian 16:08, 15 May 2011 (UTC)
Hmm. This may be a job for Perl. After the log gets written, though.  :) --Boojum 16:22, 15 May 2011 (UTC)
I'm adding in my (and Xiao Fa's) previous guesses by hand. If any of the guessed words seem sufficiently unlikely to ever be tried again, go ahead and remove them. I already can't guess the same word twice in the same place. Xian 17:43, 15 May 2011 (UTC)
The paragraph breaks help me find my WORDs more quickly. If they are getting in the way of some automated process, feel free to remove them. Haydn 13:36, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

Spelling

Us humans are usually fairly forgiving, but even fairly sophisticated text-frobulation can't cope with misspellings, so we may need to be more careful than when we're simply writing to be understood.

Prophecy is the noun. Prophesy is the verb. Phrophesy isn't anything. Xian 00:39, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

At this point, there are few enough words that I'm looking by eye rather than doing anything automatic. ascendency/ascendancy was okay, and I will try to not hold obvious typos against you, but I don't count plurality differences, conjugation differences, etc. --Boojum 00:54, 18 May 2011 (UTC)


Targeted Discussions

The Cycle WORD Turns

Possibly "the Cycle *wheel* turns"? I miss the words to try. --HeidiB 16:07, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

I tried wheel, it sounded good. No luck.  :-( Haydn 17:31, 31 May 2011 (UTC)

Meta-discussion

My theory is that this is a wiki with revision control, and we should individually feel free to make executive decisions about how we want it organized. If someone disagrees, they can change it back, and/or start a discussion about it. At the discussion point, we can be all "IMHO" and "Mother May I," but things will tend to go fairly well if we just assume that everyone involved (including ourselves) is clever. For example, if I take out the "Words To Try" and you want them back, just put them back. I'll think, "Huh. Apparently they were more useful than I thought," and happily leave them alone. Haydn 13:23, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

But I don't (yet) feel confident enough in that theory to remove old talk entries, even though they are clearly obsolete. Any opinions on old talk entries or the proposed theory of wiki-etiquette in general? Haydn 13:23, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

If this version of MediaWiki supports fairly low-effort collapsible sections of pages or auto-archiving, either of those could be simple solutions. Otherwise I think the easiest answer is "scrollbar is your friend". Xian 14:37, 26 May 2011 (UTC)
Collapsible boxes don't get introduced until 1.17, and this is 1.15. I could try upgrading if people were really enthusiastic about collapsible boxes. I think archiving should just work, though. Let's see. --Boojum 22:49, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

Okay, the archive behaves fine (and knows it's a sub-page); the automatic archive box is having issues, I think because I keep trying to steal it from a more recent version of mediawiki.  :-P

Big Picture Meaning

So, are the Keepers of the Hoard the same as the Keepers in this message? I didn't think so; the character of the Keepers in the message seems to be high falutin', and the modern Keepers less so. Plus, "Keepers of the Hoard" doesn't appear. Is it possible the the modern Keepers of the Hoard are the converted minions mentioned in the final paragraph? Would-be robbers who are now defending the Dragon unwillingly? It would nicely explain their skillsets and loyalties. Haydn 18:00, 31 May 2011 (UTC)

I am embarrassed to admit that not only was I assuming that was true, but also that it was sufficiently obvious that I didn't think to mention it. Xian 18:38, 1 June 2011 (UTC)
I would agree, it seems the most likely case. Elizabeth 19:19, 1 June 2011 (UTC)

Just in case it hadn't already occurred to everyone else doing the exhausting mechanic, it now seems clear that paragraph 2 follows the forms of a magic ritual intended to do something to metal. Perhaps the ritual with the three flames of the dragon creates the keys to the vault? Elizabeth 19:19, 1 June 2011 (UTC)

Alpha is not a number. --HeidiB 12:08, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

Alpha is a free man! Xian 02:06, 14 June 2011 (UTC)
Actually, in ancient Greek, alpha was often used as a number. alpha = 1, beta = 2, etc. -Derrick

Li Merit was told at the puttering party that he will get an info dump when the page is completely deciphered. --Kasumi 22:58, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

Suffixes

Suffixes not from French

-ship -ness -hood -ric -ly -ing -oid -oholic -orama

Suffixes with arguably Frenchy etymologies

-ery -er -ity -ous -age -itude -ure -tion (also -sion, occasionally -ion) -ance (-ence, -ancy, -ency)

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